Beta 10 Feedback - 0.10.2.2 Modder's perspective

This has been my experience with the beta 10 so far. It's has been, for the most part, from the perspective of a VPK modder.

- When modding a voice pack, the UI doesn't do a very good job of showing me where to click to edit the call outs. Took me a couple of minutes to figure it out. The buttons that open the window to change the sound file are very easy to miss. You have to click on the not-very-obvious text to even display the small buttons that also don't really tell you much of what they do.

http://i.imgur.com/eT0sVli.png?1

- It would save me a world of a headache if we could sort the list of achievements alphabetically. Seriously, when modding a voice pack, 60% of my time is spent trying to find single achievements on the list. I know currently it's sorted by priority, but other sorting options for the achievement list (like by category, alphabetically, or by how often the achievement is achieved) would be GREATLY appreciated.

- Would be nice if custom voice packs could change the "session started", "session ended", or even the "volume test" sound files.

- Some achievements are missing descriptions. And some descriptions are not very specific. Like Knife_Fight. Sometimes, I am more willing to disable an achievement if I don't know what exactly triggers it than to guess.

- Quick Edit: When I want to test how some achievements chain with each other, it can be very difficult to quickly click preview for each achievement to check. I know this can be solved by the modder by just manually chaining them in one file or something like that but a function to queue several achievement previews would be appreciated.

Now that as a modder I can edit the new dynamic sounds feature I feel I have TONS more options and control over my voice packs. I love this change. With this, been able to change the background of the call outs, and (eventually) been able to create and edit our own achievements, makes me feel like the sky is the limit. Specially when compared to how it used to be previous to beta 10. I will post a new thread if I have any more feedback.

Edit2: grammar

Other feedback for 10.2.2:

Max Kill - Does not have an achievement image pop-up (this was also prevalent in 10.2.1)
Revenge - Does not play the sound or have the achievement image

The MAX kill is intentional, as it is similar to the PER_KILL one, however Revenge should have all of those. I remember we had some issue with the logic behind Revenge I'll check it out.

And Killah, thank you for the feedback. Update your client, you should have something under Plugins to play with. It's not polished but might help you with voice pack testing.


Edit: Some better responses for you.

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It would save me a world of a headache if we could sort the list of achievements alphabetically

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Oh dear god. The amount of work it took to get the killboard to sort and filter was an absolute pain. I might be able to re-use that data-structure though.

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Would be nice if custom voice packs could change the "session started", "session ended", or even the "volume test" sound files.

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That would require a surprising amount of work just for that change. Those sounds / logic are still hardcoded into the client, whereas achievements are modular components which voicepack files interact with specifically. I'm not against spending time on that in the future, just don't expect it any time before we launch.

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Some achievements are missing descriptions. And some descriptions are not very specific

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That's one reason we display the Lua script which triggers the achievement, but I know that is not the most intuitive to read. One thing the description does (only for the voice pack editor) is if there is no description set, it secretly returns a 'comment' field in the achievement. The idea behind that was so we could put in plain text what the achievement does if there is no description. I guess I could expose the comment directly so it will still show when there is an achievement with vague description. Of course that means Fist or I actually have to go through and comment them.

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Quick Edit: When I want to test how some achievements chain with each other

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The plugin I gave you access to should help you with that specifically.

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Now that as a modder I can edit the new dynamic sounds feature I feel I have TONS more options and control over my voice packs. I love this change. With this, been able to change the background of the call outs, and (eventually) been able to create and edit our own achievements, makes me feel like the sky is the limit. Specially when compared to how it used to be previous to beta 10. I will post a new thread if I have any more feedback.

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You definitely have me thinking on what else we can open up for voicepacks.


So thank you again for the feedback. I really wouldn't count on these changes to happen before we launch in under two weeks. I'm more looking for stability right now. You had mentioned users were crashing when you tested your last Beta 10 voicepack which is what I would rather make sure doesn't happen first :)

Would you consider allowing it to have an associated image?
With the relative rarity and effort of getting the final blow on a MAX, I can assume it would be a welcome feeling of accomplishment when seeing an image along with a sound!

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Originally Posted by myothercarisa

Would you consider allowing it to have an associated image?
With the relative rarity and effort of getting the final blow on a MAX, I can assume it would be a welcome feeling of accomplishment when seeing an image along with a sound!

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You want to make the image? :)

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Originally Posted by Silencer

And Killah, thank you for the feedback. Update your client, you should have something under Plugins to play with. It's not polished but might help you with voice pack testing.

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This is exactly what I was looking for!

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Originally Posted by Silencer

Oh dear god. The amount of work it took to get the killboard to sort and filter was an absolute pain. I might be able to re-use that data-structure though.

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I mean, Idk much about coding and programming but isn't there an easy way to change the way the list is displayed without messing with the way the program works with it? I guess it's a dumb question but this is one of the biggest pains for me when working with the RST. When call outs are changed and new ones are added the list also changes so it makes it even worst remembering where exactly an specific call out is on the list.

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Originally Posted by Silencer

That's one reason we display the Lua script which triggers the achievement, but I know that is not the most intuitive to read. One thing the description does (only for the voice pack editor) is if there is no description set, it secretly returns a 'comment' field in the achievement. The idea behind that was so we could put in plain text what the achievement does if there is no description. I guess I could expose the comment directly so it will still show when there is an achievement with vague description. Of course that means Fist or I actually have to go through and comment them.

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Yeah, I know this is a very niche complain. And I also understood why the scripting was shown. I just tried to talk from the point of view of someone trying to get into making a voice pack. I mean, I figured it out but idk if most other people would do too. Again, it's just a very niche thing.

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Originally Posted by Silencer

So thank you again for the feedback. I really wouldn't count on these changes to happen before we launch in under two weeks. I'm more looking for stability right now. You had mentioned users were crashing when you tested your last Beta 10 voicepack which is what I would rather make sure doesn't happen first :)

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This is makes perfect sense. This changes are all I needed to start releasing voicepacks in the beta10. I am astonished as to how fast it was. You guys are crazy. Thanks a ton for your support and giving me tons of work to do for this weekend. ;D

More feedback 10.2.2 :
This involves the new single binary file option.
When editing a soundfile in a loaded single-file voicepack, you first have to reset that soundfile to default, then load the new sound (and then re-publish). Otherwise it would just keep playing whatever the sound originally was.
If a user would want to change a couple sounds in a published single-file voicepack, it wouldn't be intuitive for them to do so.
Maybe a tooltip that points out to press "default" first on any sound you want to change?

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Originally Posted by Exploding Fist

You want to make the image? :)

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If that's a serious offer, I think we can produce one for you guys! Well not me specifically, my photoshop skills wouldn't be even able to put a big red X on say the juggernaut achievement image...

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Originally Posted by myothercarisa

More feedback 10.2.2 :
This involves the new single binary file option.
When editing a soundfile in a loaded single-file voicepack, you first have to reset that soundfile to default, then load the new sound (and then re-publish). Otherwise it would just keep playing whatever the sound originally was.
If a user would want to change a couple sounds in a published single-file voicepack, it wouldn't be intuitive for them to do so.
Maybe a tooltip that points out to press "default" first on any sound you want to change?

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The program shouldn't let you take someone else's beta 10 voicepak file and compile a new one with their sounds. Creating the single binary file as of right now grabs the actual sound file and loads it. So if the sound file path doesn't point to an actual sound file on disk it won't add it.

I was planning on adding a way to extract the ogg sound files from a pak so users could do exactly what you mentioned and was toying with the idea of having a lock bit so the author could choose whether he wants users taking his sound files.

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If that's a serious offer, I think we can produce one for you guys! Well not me specifically, my photoshop skills wouldn't be even able to put a big red X on say the juggernaut achievement image...

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That's the most serious Fist has ever been.

I've tinkered a little bit with the new functionality. Looks good so far. One thing I'd like to be able to do is have the dynamic sounds avoid playing the same sound twice in a row.

Other than that, a few comments on various achievements:

Does NICE THINGS have a planned trigger condition that will be implemented in the future?

Why is there no kill streak achievement for 15 kills? It seems strange to go 5-10-20-25-30...

It looks like PISTOL WHIPPED, RUN AND HANGUN, and SIDEARM SLAYER are 4/8/12 kills with sidearms, is that correct?

Any chance on adding custom achievements to voice packs in the future? For example, I have a voice line that says "That grav tank just tried to run you down!" - could I make it play after being crushed by a magrider?

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Originally Posted by RHINO_Mk.II

I've tinkered a little bit with the new functionality. Looks good so far. One thing I'd like to be able to do is have the dynamic sounds avoid playing the same sound twice in a row.

Other than that, a few comments on various achievements:

Does NICE THINGS have a planned trigger condition that will be implemented in the future?

Why is there no kill streak achievement for 15 kills? It seems strange to go 5-10-20-25-30...

It looks like PISTOL WHIPPED, RUN AND HANGUN, and SIDEARM SLAYER are 4/8/12 kills with sidearms, is that correct?

Any chance on adding custom achievements to voice packs in the future? For example, I have a voice line that says "That grav tank just tried to run you down!" - could I make it play after being crushed by a magrider?

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Dynamic Sounds: I'd rather open up scripting options like the achievement component uses itself for default data. Remembering the last sound played would be done there. We're still debating how we want to go about that. (Related to last question)

NICE THINGS: It's always going to sit there, a shadow of its former self. Until Fist implements it that is. IT HAS NOW BEEN DELEGATED.

15 Kills: It's for class specific kill streaks. Unfortunately that's only MAXes right now. The other classes will be implemented when we launch Beta 10 during SOE Live 2014. Wait - Crap.

PISTOLS: Yes, we're also debating 3/6/9. We didn't want it conflicting with COMMISSIONER though.

Achievement PAKs: There's a very good change for that. (Related to first question)