[Bug or Feature Request] RTST Overlay + Radeon Pro CTD

[StriKejk]

OS: Windows 10 Professional 64bit
RTST: 0.10.3.3
Radeon Pro: 1.1.1.0
Graphic card: AMD Radeon HD 7870

First off, I enjoy your great work and this will be a mixture of a Bugreport and a feature request, I hope that is okay.
The best way to explain this is to describe each scenario and it's own unique problem:

Option 1:
RTST overlay: on (normal)
Radeon Pro: on (normal)
-> Planetside 2 crashes

Option 2:
RTST overlay: off
Radeon Pro: on (normal)
-> PS2 works, but no RTST overlay

Option 3:
RTST overlay: on (normal)
Radeon Pro: off
-> PS2 works, RTST overlay works, but no Radeon Pro features

Option 4:
RTST overlay: on (legacy)
Radeon Pro: on (normal)
-> PS2 works, Radeon pro works, RTST overlay is affected by Radeon pro features (example: low LOD also affects the overlay which makes it impossible to read)

Option 5:
RTST overlay: on (normal)
Radeon Pro: on (no api monitoring)
-> PS2 works, RTST overlay works, No enhanced features of Radeon Pro

Option 6:
RTST overlay: on (legacy)
Radeon Pro: on (no api detection)
-> Same as option 6

Furthermore it does not matter if I start recursion or ps2 first in any scenario mentioned above.
The problem is that I can not use both programs combined to it's full potential. It's either RTST or Radeon Pro where I have to take a step back which is quite annoying.
This is also why this is half a bug and half a feature request.

What I would love to have is this:

New Option 7:
RTST overlay: on (normal)
Radeon Pro: on (normal)
-> Planetside 2 does not crash, I can use Radeon Pro to it's full potential, RTST overlay is not affected by Radeon Pro settings.

or slightly less good:

New option 8:
RTST overlay: on (legacy)
Radeon Pro: on (normal)
-> Same as Option 7. This is actually the closest I can get right now, as you can see in "option 4", the only problem here is that Radeon Pro affects the overlay quality.

I know this is a very special request but I thought I give it a shot. I also wanted to share my experience for other people who encounter the same issue with RTST + Radeon Pro.

Thank you for reading, I know it's unlikely to get this "fixed".

---

Edit: I gave it one last shot and started RTST, Radeon Pro & PS2 as administrator and it actually seem to work right now (Option 7), I have to give it further testing to be sure tho.

[Silencer]

Thank your taking the time to post the detailed request/report. We're in the process of performing a major overhaul of the software and during this we'll be upgrading all of our libraries.

The normal hooking process (not using legacy hooks) will likely get updated as well, whether it helps with the Radeon Pro software I do not know. None of us have an AMD card to test, but when the libraries are updated I can let you know so you could try it.

However, if it helps, it's likely the result will be the same as:

Option 4:
RTST overlay: on (legacy)
Radeon Pro: on (normal)
-> PS2 works, Radeon pro works, RTST overlay is affected by Radeon pro features (example: low LOD also affects the overlay which makes it impossible to read)

Using this method specifically have you tried changing which programs start first, including starting Radeon Pro after PS2?

[StriKejk]

Using this method specifically have you tried changing which programs start first, including starting Radeon Pro after PS2?

Since you don't have an AMD graphic card you can't know this but Radeon Pro hooks itself (like the original AMD graphic driver) in between the hardware & software. It basically acts like a graphic driver, just with way more powerful tools. That the program can work this way requires it to be started (like the normal graphic driver) before the game.

Nonetheless I did some testing with the newly discovered method of starting everything as administrator. Now I can use the regular hook method and not the legacy one! Sadly it shares the same problem of being affected by Radeon Pro's settings. I feel bad that I have such bad knowledge about how this stuff works in detail, so all I can do to help you is to tell you that this problem does not occur with other overlays like Mumble or Radeon Pro's own overlay. Maybe it helps to know that it can work, so it's not an unfix-able problem.

If you need stuff to be tested on AMD cards and/or with Radeon Pro, feel free to use me ;>

Edit: This just came to my mind: As far as I understand Radeon Pro hooks itself in between the game and the driver, changing the commands and editing extra ones in it. Because mumble is not affected this could mean two things: It forces/uses commands who are not changeable by radeon pro, for example a forced LOD setting. Or it completely ignores/circumvents the hook of radeon pro in between and has a direction communication with the driver.

Edit2: fuck me, there is a warning of using radeon pro with elevated permissions everytime you start it as administrator but it actually seem to solve any problem. It looks like now I can start radeon pro after the game without getting an immediate CTD. Give me a few minutes to test if that actually solves the overlay issue as well.

Edit3: Woops I did a mistake while testing the latest changes, I was using RTST in legacy mode. I tried it with the normal mode, it didn't work and crashed (CTD) as expected. I retested a lot to be sure this time and to reduce all the confusion this might have caused here is the current standpoint.

1. I can start Radeon Pro before and after the game starts, both works fine.
2. I can start RTST before and after the game starts, in legacy mode, it is in both ways affected by Radeon Pro. It also does not matter if I start it before or after Radeon Pro.
3. RTST (normal mode) still crashes with any combination of Radeon pro, it does not matter which is started first, also elevated permissions do not change this. I still hope that the normal hook is not affected by radeon pro's settings, if only I could get it to work without CTD.
4. I can still use the normal mode of RTST with Radeon Pro if I deactivate all features who require API monitoring. Besides these features being very helpful they are also the features who make the legacy-mode overlay of RTST not work properly (blurry etc)...

This means I either use legacy-mode RTST + deactivating most radeon pro enhanced features manually, who make the overlay unusable or I use normal-mode RTST + deactivated API monitoring in radeon pro which automatically deactivates all enhanced features

[Silencer]

Since you don't have an AMD graphic card you can't know this but Radeon Pro hooks itself (like the original AMD graphic driver) in between the hardware & software. It basically acts like a graphic driver, just with way more powerful tools. That the program can work this way requires it to be started (like the normal graphic driver) before the game.

Nonetheless I did some testing with the newly discovered method of starting everything as administrator. Now I can use the regular hook method and not the legacy one! Sadly it shares the same problem of being affected by Radeon Pro's settings. I feel bad that I have such bad knowledge about how this stuff works in detail, so all I can do to help you is to tell you that this problem does not occur with other overlays like Mumble or Radeon Pro's own overlay. Maybe it helps to know that it can work, so it's not an unfix-able problem.

If you need stuff to be tested on AMD cards and/or with Radeon Pro, feel free to use me ;>

Edit: This just came to my mind: As far as I understand Radeon Pro hooks itself in between the game and the driver, changing the commands and editing extra ones in it. Because mumble is not affected this could mean two things: It forces/uses commands who are not changeable by radeon pro, for example a forced LOD setting. Or it completely ignores/circumvents the hook of radeon pro in between and has a direction communication with the driver.

Edit2: fuck me, there is a warning of using radeon pro with elevated permissions everytime you start it as administrator but it actually seem to solve any problem. It looks like now I can start radeon pro after the game without getting an immediate CTD. Give me a few minutes to test if that actually solves the overlay issue as well.

Edit3: Woops I did a mistake while testing the latest changes, I was using RTST in legacy mode. I tried it with the normal mode, it didn't work and crashed (CTD) as expected. I retested a lot to be sure this time and to reduce all the confusion this might have caused here is the current standpoint.

1. I can start Radeon Pro before and after the game starts, both works fine.
2. I can start RTST before and after the game starts, in legacy mode, it is in both ways affected by Radeon Pro. It also does not matter if I start it before or after Radeon Pro.
3. RTST (normal mode) still crashes with any combination of Radeon pro, it does not matter which is started first, also elevated permissions do not change this. I still hope that the normal hook is not affected by radeon pro's settings, if only I could get it to work without CTD.
4. I can still use the normal mode of RTST with Radeon Pro if I deactivate all features who require API monitoring. Besides these features being very helpful they are also the features who make the legacy-mode overlay of RTST not work properly (blurry etc)...

This means I either use legacy-mode RTST + deactivating most radeon pro enhanced features manually, who make the overlay unusable or I use normal-mode RTST + deactivated API monitoring in radeon pro which automatically deactivates all enhanced features

Thank you for testing those conditions. I checked and there is an updated library for our hooking method which I'll include in our next major update to see if that helps at all. I'm interested to know if it will work at all. I'd rather not limit other software from working properly!

[StriKejk]

I'll include in our next major update

I am already curious what awesome stuff we get, pre-christmaß presents?

I'll update this thread asap after I got my hand on that release!

[Exploding Fist]

I am already curious what awesome stuff we get, pre-christmaß presents?

Thanks for the detailed bug report BTW. Super helpful. So when are you going to make us a German voice pack?

[StriKejk]

Thanks for the detailed bug report BTW. Super helpful. So when are you going to make us a German voice pack?

I already have a private one, but it mainly consists of quake/unrealtournament/girlswhomoanmyname sounds, not very german tho.